Chimamanda Adichie: The Dangers of a Single Story

To hold you over until I can get my own talk up, here’s an even better talk by author Chimamanda Adichie, which I told everyone to go google, “The Dangers of a Single Story.” In it, she talks of how, when she was growing up in Nigeria (it was Nigeria, right? I need to go back and watch it again myself), the books she read most often (always?) featured white kids who ate apples. So when she started to write, she wrote stories about white people who ate apples, even though she had never seen an apple. A powerful talk about the importance of finding your own voice as a writer and how important to our body of literature a wide variety of voices is.

Beyond Orcs and Elves: a prelude

Now that NESCBWI is over, I will be posting parts of my talk, “Beyond Orcs and Elves: Diversity in Fantasy & Science Fiction for Young Readers” here on my blog. I will be breaking it up over the course of several posts—it was designed as a 40-minute–to–hour-long talk, and it’s just too long for one post. Not to mention I have slides I’ll be putting up (someone suggested SlideShare? I’ll have to check it out once I have time to sit down with it) which need to be incorporated somehow.

I haven’t had time, though, to sit down and split up the talk and figure out where the most natural breaks are. I went straight from a busy week last week to a VERY full weekend Friday, Saturday, and Sunday (13 critiques and two presentations over the course of three days) to back to work on Monday, which has left me a little shell-shocked, and all I want to do now outside of work is to sleep. You know it’s bad when you can’t even concentrate on the Sarah Jane Adventures even though you’ve been looking forward to watching the last season!

My evening is full tonight, so it will be at least tomorrow night, if not sometime on Thursday (I’m taking the day off to be home for the delivery of my new couch, which I’m excited about) before the first post of the talk is organized. So keep an eye out until then.

The set is complete!

Awe. Some.

ARCs

ETA: Oops, the uploading ability from my phone doesn’t seem to work with my blog—probably because my blog has been broken for over a year. In fact, old pictures I’ve uploaded have disappeared from the archives. So I’m using Flickr now. Anyone know an easy way to upload directly to Flickr from Android? I can’t find an app in the App Store, and I’m not sure which 3rd-party apps are reliable. Emailing it to myself, saving it to my computer’s hard drive, uploading it to Flickr, and THEN posting it here is too many steps!

Workshop and conference miscellanea, other events

  • Just got invited last minute to join a panel at ASJA on Saturday on “Perfecting Your Elevator Pitch” from 11 a.m. to noon this Saturday, April 30, at the Roosevelt Hotel in NYC. I believe it’s open to the public (not sure if there’s a cost) so if you’re going, see you there.
  • Only a few weeks away from the NESCBWI conference in Fitchburg, MA, which I believe sold out, but if you were one of the lucky ones who got a ticket, I’m looking forward to doing a workshop on worldbuilding and a talk on diversity in fantasy in science fiction. I’ve given “Beyond Orcs and Elves” before, in California and in Utah, so this will be my East Coast version of it, and then after for those who didn’t make it to any of those events I plan on sharing at least parts of it on the blog here.
  • how not to talk down to your YA audienceIf you were to be in my worldbuilding workshop, what would you want to hear about? What kind of handouts would you find useful? I’ve done this workshop before, but it’s been a while and I’m working on updating it, so feel free to jot down a wish list. This is another topic that I’ve been meaning to blog more about, as well, so once the presentation/workshop is over I plan to share at least parts of it here.
  • While I’m in Fitchburg, I’m sad to say, I’m going to miss the Diversity in YA Tour stop in New York. Of COURSE all the cool things are happening on the same weekend! But that doesn’t mean that YOU have to miss out on it. They start the weekend after next with San Francisco, where friends Cindy Pon, Malinda Lo, and J.A. Yang will be signing (Cindy and Malinda are the masterminds behind the whole thing and will be at every stop), as well as Gene Luen Yang, who I don’t know personally but you might have heard about through, I don’t know, his National Book Award nomination for American Born Chinese or the book winning the Printz and the Eisner. Then they’ll be in Austin, where they’re joined by a large contingency of authors including Lee & Low author Guadalupe Garcia McCall, whose debut Under the Mesquite comes out soon. And if you’ve read and loved Bleeding Violet as I did and are in the Austin area, Dia Reeves will be there, too, as well as several other notable authors. In Chicago, they’ll be joined by Nnedi Okorafor, among others. In Boston, you’ve got Holly Black, Francisco X. Stork . . . the list is getting too long. Just go to the tour page and look at all the cool people who will be at each stop! I will wave in Cindy and Malinda’s general direction as we pass, three ships in the night (or day as the case may be), me on the way to Massachusetts from New York City and them the other way around.
  • Then later this month is BEA. I’m looking forward to seeing a lot of author friends in town. If you’re coming in town for BEA, drop me a line.
  • Before BEA is School Library Journal’s Day of Dialogue, which sounds like it’ll be a great event—Katherine Paterson, discussions on diversity, apps, debut authors. Not a bad price for SLJ subscribers, too.

May will be a busy month, and then in June all of publishing will be at ALA (I don’t believe I’ll be going to it myself this year, but Lee & Low will have a booth), then later in the year is WorldCon in Reno, which I wish I could attend but likely won’t be able to shoehorn in between all my work, hopefully a trip home at some point in the summer, and Girls’ Camp for the girls in my church, which I’m chaperoning this year. I kind of feel like saying all this stuff out loud is making the summer feel almost over, the way that when I work on books for a year or more in advance I kind of feel like I’m living in the future. But you live in the present, so you should schedule a few of these events in!

Just what *does* an editor do all day? (Or, nibbled to death by ducks.)

What Do People Do All Day?I recently lamented that I had little blog fodder anymore—and of course I know you are all languishing to know what has been happening in my brain lately—and a friend suggested that I talk about the editorial process, because she didn’t know much about it. I have discussed it on this blog before, but my tag system isn’t the most organized filing system so perhaps it’s time to revisit the subject.

This idea was reemphasized to me the other day when I got an email asking me (paraphrased and anonymized):

How would I go about getting a job like yours? I don’t have the discipline to write every day. I would love a job where I could read books all the time. Is there a way to become an editor instead of a writer without having to go back to full time education?

I like to joke that I get to read for a living, but the reality is that reading manuscript submissions is only a small part of my job, one that I constantly feel like I don’t have enough time to do. So here’s just a little window into the kinds of tasks I’ve been doing over the course of the last few weeks as I prepared and sent three books out to the printer for advance reader’s copies (and a few things I’ll be doing later this week). Some of these tasks only took a few minutes, some an hour, some took all day or several days, in the case of editing a manuscript.

  • Meet with company vice president to go over a new-to-me procedure (in this case, several times, as this is our first season; this includes meetings about how to coordinate with the production manager, how to upload files to the printer’s FTP site, how to double check the files I received from the designers to ensure that what I’m sending to the printer has the correct measurements including bleeds, etc.)
  • Check with marketing to ensure that the number of ARCs I’m telling the production manager we need is still correct
  • Assemble all the specs of the ARCs to go along with the files I’m sending to the printer
  • Compress PDFs for uploading to the printer
  • Transfer zipped files to the printer’s site
  • Organize feedback for partial revision that I’m asking author for to prepare for acquisition meeting
  • Back-and-forth with author, including reading revision and clarifying some points
  • Organize more feedback to refine partial revision for acquisition meeting
  • Put together two acquisitions memos for the acquisition meeting, including market research, editorial notes, comparison titles, etc., and a trip to the library to find a particular book to show around at the meeting
  • Go to acquisition committee meeting, present on why we need/want the books in consideration
  • Email several agents about books in various stages of consideration
  • Prepare offers for books discussed in acquisitions
  • Negotiate with agents
  • Prepare fall preview (visuals from my fall books) for department quarterly meeting
  • Attend department quarterly meeting, talk about fall books briefly
  • Attend company quarterly meeting, talk about fall books briefly
  • Read full manuscripts that have been waiting too long for a reply (ongoing)
  • Make a decision on whether to send feedback on certain full manuscripts
  • Organize notes for manuscripts that I’m sending feedback on (ongoing, as I am working on several at once)
  • Give partial submissions to intern to sort through and give feedback on to assist me in separating out the most promising submissions (ongoing)—which results in a pile of promising submissions I need to go through
  • Request full manuscripts of most promising submissions
  • Look at huge submissions pile and feel guilty that I’m not faster (multiple times a day)
  • Look at most recent version of cover for all three fall books, proofread, send feedback and design requests to designers
  • Go through interior galleys of three ARCs to ensure that copyedit/proofreading changes have been made
  • Send interior galley revision requests to designer
  • Start the edit for a spring book (this in-depth edit is a second look after a revision, so it won’t take quite as long as the first, but it has already taken several full days and will probably take two or three more before it’s done)
  • Start the search for a cultural expert for a spring book
  • Prepare bar codes to send to designers for final fall covers
  • Meet with a group of college students to tell them about how I started the imprint and why diversity in children’s fantasy and science fiction is important
  • Talk with marketing about a new thing we’re thinking of doing for our fall books
  • Look at Tu’s catalog page to ensure it’s the most up-to-date information before the catalog goes out the door
  • Actually upload fall books to printer’s site, coordinate with production manager

I feel like I’m missing something, and the list is very much out of order compared to the way the last few weeks went, but it gives you an idea. And looking at that list, no wonder I’ve been so tired these last few weeks! But my point is, there is so much that an editor does. Some of these things, like coordinating directly with a designer, are something that an editor might not do at a larger house because they have People for that. I like being able to coordinate the stages of my books so closely, though of course things like submitting my own Cataloging-in-Publication data are less interesting than being involved in the design of a book or choosing the paper.

Qualifications

Does someone need to be qualified to be an editor beyond a love of reading? If you already have a bachelor’s degree, I’m not sure it’s necessary to go back to school for an English degree (my undergrad is in marriage, family, and human development, with an emphasis on child development), but a love of reading certainly isn’t enough. More important than that, a good editor needs critical reading skills, the ability to sift out the most promising submissions—both in artistic quality and in marketability. A good editor, therefore, also needs to understand the market that he or she wants to work in, and in this changing climate, an innovative business-oriented mind is an important asset (this can be learned, believe me—I never really thought of myself as a “business” type). A good editor needs a deep understanding of the audience for the books she wants to edit, particularly when it comes to children’s and young adult books, because of the developmental needs of the audience that sometimes adults forget about—and the ability to recognize and sift out condescension to that audience.

A good editor needs the ability to work independently and as a team, depending on the task at hand, and the ability to be organized in keeping track of long-term projects (most books take at least a year if not more from acquisition to publication). A good editor doesn’t necessarily have to be a fast reader (though it helps if you’re editing the number of books some of my colleagues do a year—some editors work on 20, 30, or 40 books per year; they’re generally at houses where they don’t have a direct hand in every other stage of the process, though, and many of them have full-time assistants to sort through the slush pile, if their house even still allows slush). What an editor does need as far as reading skills, however, is a sharp eye for detail when necessary, and the ability to also hold a picture of the full scope of a long book in their mind at the same time, in addition to a great sense of taste for voice, and the ability to help shape prose that needs it, including a strong knowledge of grammar but also a good sense of what is missing—how to guide a writer in filling in the gaps in a manuscript with promise. That means being able to see characterization flaws, plot holes, pacing problems, and worldbuilding weaknesses, and know ways to suggest fixing them.

And all of that requires enough people skills to know how to communicate these ideas to writers with diplomacy, tact, and in a way that works for the writer’s particular personality. Hopefully you have a bachelor’s—and it doesn’t need to be in English. The next step, after ensuring you have all these qualities, is to get job experience, and that means being willing to start at the bottom (internships, editorial assistant positions) and work your way up, learning from a mentoring system, basically, as you go.

The editing process

So, let’s talk about the editing process for the life of one book. After I’ve requested the full manuscript and like it enough to decide to work with it, I start out with developmental editing, usually even before a book is acquired. I’ll read requested full manuscripts through, trying to take as few notes as possible because notes just slow me down. I’m just trying to get a feel for whether the voice, plotting, and characterization suck me in enough to want to work on this project for over a year of my life, not get hung up on typos, even if the author can’t spell “all right.” (Note: NOT “alright.”) Those that I decide are strong enough that I might want to take to acquisitions, I then evaluate whether they’re strong enough to discuss right away, or if they might need a little development.

Then, if it needs work (and most projects usually need at least a little work), I’ll make notes of the most important things that need addressing, the things that I couldn’t bring the book to acquisitions without addressing. Sometimes that’s a weak beginning. Sometimes it’s a character who doesn’t feel like he or she is working. Sometimes it’s strengthening worldbuilding, or a critical change needed in the main character that would be a dealbreaker otherwise. It might be a need to delete some scenes, or add some scenes, or for pacing to be adjusted, or any number of other fairly big-picture adjustments. But the book is strong enough for some reason (usually the voice and an original concept) that these things are worth asking for.

Then I talk with the author (or sometimes with the agent) and ask if she or he would be willing to make the changes I ask for, usually by compiling those notes into an editorial letter, but sometimes in a more casual email. Usually they’re willing to do at least a partial revision to make sure that the book is seen in its best light—if I’m serious enough about a book to ask for a revision, it’s something I hope to eventually take to acquisitions.

If the revision is done to my satisfaction, I’ll take the book to acquisitions and we’ll talk about how it fits our list, what need it fills, market viability, and so forth. We’ll make a decision on whether we want to make an offer.

Then the negotiation process begins, either with the author directly or with their agent, if they have one. Contracts get negotiated and signed, etc.

After that (well, during the contract negotiations, really), the author and I set up deadlines for milestone revisions—usually the first revision date and the final due date, though we might expect that some intermediate revisions could crop up. The revision at the first revision stage is often still developmental, focusing on the big picture. It might be finishing a revision that was begun with a partial, or it might be another full developmental round.

After developmental editing needs are satisfied, we move on to line editing, refining the words on the page at the paragraph and sentence level. This is often accompanied by further smaller developmental tweaks, usually artifacts left over from bigger changes.

Once the author has completed any line editing changes necessary, then it’s on to copyediting, which is usually done by another editor, often a freelancer who specializes in catching the grammatical details that we weren’t looking for in the previous passes. That could be as easy as looking for typos and punctuation errors, but usually it’s more in-depth, covering part fact-checking (“are you sure there’s an “East Side” of Chicago?”), part continuity police (“He had green eyes on page 15 and brown eyes on page 278. Which is it?”), part general secondary reader (querying a point that’s confusing, or querying a change in wording that might clarify or correct an error), and most importantly, the copyeditor is the person who catches the vagaries of usage that we never really think about in speech, such as dangling modifiers, unclear antecedents, the difference between hyphens and em-dashes, and all those other grammar-nerd things that a lot of people think is an acquisition editor’s only duty.

Then once the editor and author go over copyedits, accepting and rejecting changes and discussing any points in conflict, it’s on to proofreading to catch the little stuff. Often by the time we’re at proofreading the book has been designed and the text has been flowed into the galleys, so in addition to typos and random little problems like that, the proofreader might also look for bad breaks (in children’s books it’s not really a good idea to break any words across the page or to break hard words at all), stacks (the same word starting or ending multiple lines), missing or extraneous page elements (such as headers on a chapter opener page, missing page numbers), that kind of thing.

And while all this is going back and forth between the editor, copyeditor, proofreader, and author—multiple times per editor and all at various stages, because of course no editor ever works on only one book at a time—remember that long list of things I’ve done in the last few weeks? There are about that many other things going on at the same time at any given moment in the book’s life cycle.

What do editors do all day? Not reading, in the sense of reading only submissions (though at any given moment we might be reading as we edit). The only time an editor really has that luxury is when first starting a new job, when the work hasn’t started to pile up. I had this luxury back in early 2010 when I was starting Tu because I also didn’t inherit any books from a previous editor—because I was starting a brand-new imprint—so I was reading submissions all day, every day, until I found books I wanted to push forward to the next stage. Then it gets complicated, and you have to budget your time and make yourself a schedule of deadlines to ensure that you’re keeping up with all the myriad things that need to be done. For example, I’m coming up on a deadline to order art for one of my spring books, which tells me that I need to start talking to the author and the designer and putting together ideas so all the design and art needs this book will need will have plenty of time.

One editor friend described all these little things that editors need to do as “being nibbled to death by ducks.” What do you think—appropriate?

Update

Thanks again for everyone’s support with starting Tu Books! We’re closing in on getting our fall 2011 books out to the printer for advance reader’s copies, and we’ll soon have them available for reviewers and librarians at ALA. Summer is coming up fast!

Just to make you aware, if you linked to the tupublishing.com site at some point in the past before Lee & Low acquired it, we’ve had a redirect on it for the year-plus since I’ve been here in New York. The old domain name is set to expire soon, so please update your links to the current site if you haven’t yet done so.

The science of time travel

As I was walking through the muggy streets to work this morning, it was a little hard to breathe—it was threatening to rain but hadn’t quite gotten there yet. And that got me thinking about my asthma, and for some reason time travel along with it. Health/medical issues/immunity differences between time periods is a subject (are subjects?) that’s been talked about a lot in adult SF, but I haven’t really seen it addressed as much in science fiction for children and YA: Method of time travel aside, what would happen to someone who is extremely, say, allergic or asthmatic or something who had to travel in time? Sure, we generally want our heroes to be in good health so, y’know, they don’t die before the end of the book (and I’d truly worry that an asthmatic who doesn’t have access to modern medicine in the middle of a bad attack would end up dead or at least an invalid in most historic times—or would they? would certain cultures have treatments that would help?).

But could it be done? Could someone who had a condition that’s considered relatively minor and/or chronic today be the hero of a time-travel story? How would that be done in a way in which the condition presents challenges alongside the challenges of whatever the plot/mystery is—challenge them even to the point where there is a danger of dying, yet not actually die?

What say you, writers? Anyone ever do this story? Has anyone ever done it, that you can recall? I can’t think of any published time-travel books in which the main character has a medical condition that would present a danger in a historic time period. Can  you?

What I’m looking for: “The bright shiny promises of the future”

Dystopias are hot right now, that’s for sure. And I do love a good dystopia. After all, I’m a child of the 80s. Who doesn’t love The Terminator or Mad Max (especially the cheese of Beyond Thunderdome)? Or to use the example of a more present-day dystopia, space cowboys in Firefly? I love Joss Whedon, but his “shiny” futures (and presents) involve a lot of loved-character deaths, often in non-heroic, dystopian ways, and lately involving a lot of gunshot wounds to the head (I’m looking at you, Dollhouse). I call that dystopia.

But I’d like to see as much hope as I might despair. Oh, sure, dystopias often have a lot of hope, too—in fact, that’s probably one of the reasons I was frustrated with the last book of the Hunger Games trilogy, Mockingjay, because the end didn’t feel as hopeful as I wanted it to be. I feel like Matched by Ally Condie presents the possibility of a lot more hope—though we’re still waiting on book 2 and I could be wrong about that. And when your world is filled with zombie hordes, how much hope is left to the human race, let alone for any particular individual? I’m kind of scared to read The Dark and Hollow Places for this reason, though I’ve heard it’s really good. (And I loved books 1 and 2, so why am I so scared, even if it isn’t all that hopeful an ending?)

Science fiction is on a comeback slope, and most of it is dystopian. Yet kids, particularly, are all about hope for the future—even the teens who think we currently live in a dystopia hopefully have hope for their own futures, and plan to make the world a better place than the war-torn, disaster-filled world we’re living in right now. We need stories that address the hopeful side of life, as well, particularly in science fiction.

Farah Mendlesohn, a children’s book scholar, wrote an excellent Horn Book piece on this idea a couple years ago. While I don’t agree with her completely, she makes some great points (in my opinion, many of the old guard of SF don’t recognize children’s SF not because the writers aren’t SF experts, but because many old-guard SF writers still write as if it’s 1960 techwise—it baffles me that some of the old guard don’t recognize the genius that is Scott Westerfeld’s work as far as forward-looking tech, and I think addressing social concerns is vitally important too; not all science is hard science, says the social science major). (Equally important, though, is her point that many in children’s lit don’t understand the history of SF in children’s—those who don’t know who Norton and Heinlein are need to fix that problem!)

One point, in particular, is particularly important to my purpose here, though:

In their fiction for younger people, Heinlein, Norton, and their contemporaries wrote with an eye on concerns very similar to those found in adult science fiction: the world of work, the world of changing technology, and the bright new opportunities promised by these things. They could do this for two reasons. First, the world of teens was much closer to the world of adults than it is today. Norton and Heinlein’s audience was either already earning their own living or would be a few years in the future. Now the fifteen-year-old reader might be a decade away from the professional workplace. Second, Heinlein and Norton shared the values of the adult SF market and assumed that their role was to introduce younger readers to that material. They loved what teen SF readers loved: the bright shiny promises of the future.

…And perhaps because of YA literature’s preoccupation with social problems, science fiction for teens became increasingly a place for adults to warn the young about the future. At first glance this might be seen as introducing a healthy skepticism, but it was relentless. Very few SF books published for the teen market since 1970 saw the future as something to look forward to, and the downbeat books are not merely skeptical, they are downright doom-mongering and disempowering.

…So we have a bunch of readers who want stuff that tells them about the world, and the future, and what they can do to take part in it, and they are mostly being told that it’s really depressing, the world is going to hell in a handbasket, and now is the best of all possible worlds. Is it any wonder they head for the adult shelves? The potential readers of SF written for teens have little respect for it, because they themselves can compare it to what is on offer for adults and know it does not match up.

…We may want children to learn science and languages, but our societies regard children and adults who enjoy doing that as a bit odd. The conflation of all children into one pool is improper, as a general principle, but when dealing with the children who like science fiction, it ignores the issue that those children—and their adult counterparts, readers and critics alike—have developed their own system of genre-specific criteria.

Galaxy GamesThese are some good points, and I hope that books like Greg Fishbone’s Galaxy Games series will at least in part address the need for more hopeful, forward-looking science fiction for children. But those who warn of doom and gloom also have a point—socially, at least, and environmentally, we have a lot of things wrong with the world, and as Whitney Houston says, our children are the future, right? They’re our hope. So how about some good books set in the far future that did what Star Trek did, but in a way that doesn’t dismiss the conflicts that had to happen to get them to that state of happy-happy future? What about eco-engineering, and green space exploration? What about diversity in the future that also addresses our historical problems socioeconomic and racial conflict? That is, what’s interesting to me isn’t so much “We’ve solved all of Earth’s problems! No war! No need for money!” to paraphrase Picard bragging about the future to a 23rd-century woman in First Contact. What interests me is what brings us to that … not utopia, because certainly there was still conflict in Star Trek, but a better world, certainly, in many ways.

Tankborn near finalI’m excited about Galaxy Games because it’ll tackle some of these ideas for a middle-grade set in the context of sports, but I’d also be interested to see what a hopeful science fiction story for teens might look like. Space travel, new worlds, the final frontier, etc. One current book that addresses the world of work is David Macinnis Gill’s Black Hole Sun, though still in a dystopian way. Tu’s list for this fall also has one, Tankborn—at age 15, GENs have to enter the world of work. Still, dystopian. I’m not looking for utopian, necessarily—everyone’s utopia is someone else’s dystopia, often enough—but I am wondering what a modern Heinleinian (Heinleinesque?) tale might look like (perhaps Black Hole Sun IS today’s Have Spacesuit Will Travel?), and hoping for something like that in future submissions.

And feel free to suggest published books for a list of “hopeful” SF for teens.

Tu covers!

We’ve got some exciting news over at the Lee & Low blog that you need to check out.

Also, for those who were interested in the African American genealogy conference, I promised I’d post my Top Ten Tips slides here and have gotten quite busy this week and haven’t gotten to it yet. I’ll post over the weekend. Thanks for your patience!

Romance vs. romantic elements in a story

At LTUE last week, I was on a panel that gave me some food for thought, which I’d like to get some discussion on. The whole panel was set up around the difference between a romance (maybe Romance, capital R) and a story with romantic elements. Panelists included adult SFF author John Brown, YA fantasy author Mette Ivie Harrison (here’s her take on the same panel), and romance author Lynn Kurland. I believe (and I hope she corrects me if I’m wrong) the other panelist Amy Chopine writes YA fantasy as well.

So add me into the mix and you’ve got a panel skewed toward books for young readers (we focused on YA), which I think does affect how we view romance, because we’re not talking happily-ever-after most of the time, even with happy endings—you know in a year or two, even though you want the couple to stay together, they’re young enough that they’ll probably break up off-screen, because life happens (though happily-ever-afters do also abound in YA; there’s just not always that kind of pressure, you know?). John had some really interesting questions he asked the panel, though I didn’t take notes and can’t remember a one of them. The thing that stuck out to me, really, was the idea that Lynn and several other romance writers in the audience insisted upon that the best (maybe only) kind of successful romance story is one in which the main love interests hate each other at first, ala Taming of the Shrew or perhaps Lizzie and Darcy.

I love me a good vehement discussion (some would call it argument, yes), and I took issue with this position. I think that there can be successful romance stories in which the main characters like each other at first, but some other plot element is the driving conflict. But perhaps this is the difference between a romance vs. another genre with romantic elements (in YA, Twilight might be considered a romance, for example, rather than a fantasy with romantic elements—the romance drives the plot, not the other way around).

Lynn also described a really interesting way she decides whether a story is a romance or just a story with romance in it: if the plot points that resolve first are the romance, then the saving-the-world or whatever other plot line you have wraps up, it’s not a romance. Vice versa, and it is.

That is, the emphasis the plot places on romance vs. other conflict is what defines the genre. I can totally go with that.

But.

What of this “only stories where the protagonist/love interest hate each other at first but then fall in love are good romances” stuff?

Does something have to keep the protagonist/love interest apart the whole time for a romance story—whether Romance capital R or romantic element—to be successful? And does the thing that keeps them apart have to be that they don’t like each other? Is this just a big difference between YA and adult category romance?

Somehow the conversation then turned to love triangles, which I’m not fond of but my dislike of them pales in comparison to Mette’s, which includes thinking up ways to kill off the girl caught between two boys, and matching up the boy she likes with one of her own more sensible characters.

I like Mette’s description in the first post I linked above, of the couple against the world, working together against the main conflict of the book. That’s the kind of story I’m drawn to. I’m having trouble coming up with good examples of couple-against-main-conflict, though. Except I suppose Tankborn (which I can’t link to because we are not quite to catalog-and-covers-to-share stage, but soon you will be able to see why I love it so!) which involves the two main characters eventually finding themselves in such a situation (which I can’t tell you about yet because I don’t want to spoil it!). The love triangle in The Hunger Games and Katniss’s PTSD do get in the way of any romance going very far, but that story also has a lot of Katniss & friends (including two love interests) against the world. That might be why Mockingjay made me so angry, because Katniss’s team, especially Gale, was broken so severely.

What do you think? Do you prefer obstacles to be contrived for the couple not to get together (see how I loaded that question?)? Do you like couple-against-the-conflict-together plots? Are there other kinds of romance and/or romantic element-al stories that work better for you? What makes a story a Romance vs. a story with romantic elements?